{"id":1115,"date":"2021-08-13T03:52:00","date_gmt":"2021-08-13T03:52:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ultimatehealthreport.com\/121-the-future-of-cbd-research-with-hunter-land-canopy-growth-corporation\/"},"modified":"2021-08-13T03:52:00","modified_gmt":"2021-08-13T03:52:00","slug":"121-the-future-of-cbd-research-with-hunter-land-canopy-growth-corporation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ultimatehealthreport.com\/121-the-future-of-cbd-research-with-hunter-land-canopy-growth-corporation\/","title":{"rendered":"#121 – The Future of CBD Research with Hunter Land, Canopy Growth Corporation"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>00:09<\/span><\/p>\n All right, and we are back in class. This is Vadim, the CBD professor from CBD school.com, your school to learn all about cannabidiol. Got an extra special episode today of the CBD school podcast where I will be talking to Hunter Land, the director of cannabinoid research at Canopy Growth Corporation, a company I’m sure that you may have heard of in the past. <\/span><\/p>\n Hunter has devoted his career to researching cannabis-derived medicines and their application across a variety of conditions and his work has led to the clinical development of the first FDA-approved CBD medication, of course, which is known as Epidiolex. <\/span><\/p>\n After you are done enjoying this episode, which I think you’re going to learn a ton of information from, please visit shopcanopy.com and grab 15% off any of their CBD products, that’s shopcanopy.com. And to get 15% off, you can use the coupon code, canopy 15. <\/strong>Thanks for listening, and enjoy the show. <\/span><\/p>\n On today’s CBD School podcast episode, I have a very special guest. His name is Hunter Land, and he is the Director of Cannabinoid Research at Canopy, a company which I’m sure many of you listeners have heard about. And stay tuned, because we’re going to be learning a lot today from Hunter. So Hunter, welcome to the show.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>01:59<\/span><\/p>\n Thanks for having me.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>02:00<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, so where are you calling in from? I always like to ask my guests where they are?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>02:05<\/span><\/p>\n Well, usually I would be in North Carolina. But amidst the COVID pandemic, I’m actually stuck down here in Nicaragua.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>02:12<\/span><\/p>\n Oh, well, that’s interesting. You are my first person in over 100 episodes I’ve ever talked to in Nicaragua. And I’m not far from you. I’m in Mexico. So that’s cool.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>02:21<\/span><\/p>\n Oh, fantastic. I was down here doing a bit of volunteering. And next thing I know they canceled all the flights. So I’ve been down here for about five months. I think I’m almost resident at this point.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>02:32<\/span><\/p>\n How’s the situation there? Before we get into the meat of the podcast, what’s going on there with this whole virus?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>02:38<\/span><\/p>\n It’s not really clear, to be honest with you, the area I’m in is pretty much self-contained and pretty self-sufficient. So everybody’s kind of staying in this community. So we haven’t noticed any cases here. But outside I think there’s just a bunch of speculation. So, it’s really not clear what’s going on a national level.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>02:58<\/span><\/p>\n Gotcha. Yeah, I don’t know what to believe anymore. And that actually leads right into one of the first things I wanted to ask you. There’s a parallel here to what I’m sure you understand in the CBD and cannabis space with misinformation.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>03:09<\/span><\/p>\n I couldn’t agree more. It’s probably one of the most, I would say that some of the most critical gaps in misinformation following the cannabinoid science space.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>03:20<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah. What do you think that is? Do you think it’s because it sort of started out as a black market industry and wasn’t really ever regulated?<\/span><\/p>\n I think it dates back even further to the discovery of cannabinoids. You know, when we were first researching back in the 1900s, we knew this plant had certain properties, psychoactive properties, and medicinal properties, and even classifying the compounds and what they did, we just kind of picked this class of cannabinoids. But, you know, as we’ve learned more, they all have unique pharmacology. So unlike when you refer to different drugs like SSRIs or something to that effect, you kind of have an idea of what they do. That’s not really consistent, at least with phytocannabinoids across the board. So I think some of the confusion started there. I think some of the earlier methods to identify how these molecules function, were, I would say not as great as the current methods that we have. So a lot of the literature has become outdated, but remains present and referenced frequently. So I think that’s part of it. And then as you mentioned, the modern black market, no sort of fact-checking basis for a lot of the products.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>04:34<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, I agree with your assessment there. And but I think for the listeners, I want to always clarify things. So what would you say are some of the most important misconceptions in this space? Not just CBD, but you know, as of late, that’s the most popular one. What do you think are some of the most important misconceptions to clarify or to dispel?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>04:54<\/span><\/p>\n Well, I think there’s probably a long list. I think the first thing that we should say is, you know, CBD does not work for every condition and does not work for every individual. So certainly, there’s a lot of potential. CBD is known to have at least 65 targets. But that doesn’t mean it cures everything. Secondly, CBD is not CBD is not CBD. So when you read a study or a publication, it’s important to see exactly what they’re testing, whether this be full-spectrum or broad-spectrum or an isolated product and it doesn’t necessarily mean that those results translate well between each other. So for example, currently, most of the products have at least some THC in them, the limit weight overweight would be point 0.3% THC. And if that’s applied to a solution, that’s actually quite a bit of THC. So you could have about 2.7 or 2.8 milligrams per milliliter which, if it was at that level, a teaspoon could actually get an individual intoxicated. So, you know, if you’re having one of those products, and you’re comparing it to an isolate, they’re quite a bit different. So I think knowing exactly what the research is studying and what it’s focused on, and how that study has been conducted, is a big piece, and the other pieces, you know, what is this formulation? And does it correlate with others?<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>06:23<\/span><\/p>\n Yes, yes. I agree with you on what you said about the THC is, depending on how much you’re taking, even if it’s small, that small percent, it can still be intoxicating, when you’re talking about concentrations and dosage. I know people who swear it does absolutely nothing for them and then there are other people that say they can’t live without it now. So there is something weird that I haven’t been able to figure out and I’ve been working in this space for four years. I don’t understand why. I’m not really a scientist, but it just seems random. Like some people are responders and other people are non-responders, for whatever reason.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>07:01<\/span><\/p>\n There are potential reasons.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>07:03<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah. And I think to what you said about the full spectrum versus an isolate, you know, that seems to be all the research is all focused mostly on isolate. Now, I think nowadays, though, are you seeing an improvement in research on full-spectrum products? <\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>07:22<\/span><\/p>\n I would say even the terminology is a bit convoluted. Because full spectrum is not one thing, right? So isolate, CBD isolate is one thing. We know that’s a CBD molecule but when you say full or broad-spectrum, it’s CBD plus a bunch of other things that are different by product. So there are about 200 or so terpenes that can be found in cannabis, that are flavonoids that can be found in cannabis. And we know those have activity. So being able to say that full-spectrum is just one thing I don’t think is an accurate way to look at things. So while there is research going on into botanical mixtures, and certainly we know that certain botanical mixtures that are consistent work better than others, and we know that sometimes they work better than isolated compounds, and sometimes they don’t. It’s not clear, you know, that they’re being consistently tested to be one similar formulation.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>08:23<\/span><\/p>\n Absolutely. Yeah. And is Canopy doing any kind of research in that area?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>08:28<\/span><\/p>\n It’s actually my favorite piece of research that I’m working on right now, it has to do with, you know, this idea of entourage effect and plant synergies and additive effects. I was fortunate enough to have Ethan Russo as a mentor when I worked at GW Pharma. And you know, Ethan, a lot of his focus was looking on things aside from just THC and CBD, but these other components and how they could potentially have a better effect. And what I’m learning is that when we look at some of these terpenes, or terpenoids, and we combine them in research, sometimes you have a better effect, depending on which ones they are. Sometimes you don’t have a better effect. And oftentimes you have a worse effect. So we’re finding out that these other molecules not only do they require specific dose things, but specific knowledge of what they are. And one interesting example is there’s one terpene called alpha-pinene. And there’s another called myrcene and myrcene is known to be sedating. It’s associated with the new clinical term couch lock. And alpha-pinene can be alerting and it’s been thought to help with memory. So they kind of have different functions. It’s almost akin to taking something like an amphetamine like Adderall with your Ambien for sleep. From a scientific standpoint, it doesn’t make sense to have both those present if you’re trying to treat sleep. So I think, you know, the amount of detail that can be applied to some of this research is needed. And I think certainly a critical gap.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>10:06<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, it seems like as Russo said, oh, no, no, this wasn’t Russo, it was Mechoulam said something like a bouquet, right, you know, that quote, like a bouquet of all these different terpenes. And in the plan, there’s so much you can find. And as he said, there are also these counter effects for each one. So I think there’s tons of interesting research ahead. And there must have been quite an honor to work with Ethan Russo. I mean, I’ve read his work. And that was probably one of the best learning experiences of your life, I’m sure.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>10:39<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, it was fantastic. I mean, Ethan is just such a great guy. And his contributions to science have been just, it’s tough to put it into words, because he has contributed so much. And I was fortunate enough to not only have Ethan as a, as a mentor, when you’re, you know, at the time when I worked at GW it was not the company is now, it was primarily a research company looking at all these different plant cannabinoids. And when you do that type of work, you work in a space where you have access to the best cannabinoid scientists in the country. So I was fortunate enough to have a long list of experts to more or less get a lot of scientific education, be it from academia or from industry. And that’s continued to grow with the move to Canopy as they have, you know, a lot of really esteemed experts here at Canopy. So continuing to grow the knowledge and continuing to do work to improve the knowledge base.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>11:37<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, we’ve talked a bit about some of these well-known names in the space on the research side, but there are all these celebrities you’re seeing, especially in the sports area, endorsing CBD. Do you think that consumers can trust that put their trust in celebrity endorsements in this space?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>11:56<\/span><\/p>\n I think it depends largely on the celebrity and why they’re involved. Right. So I mean, there are certain celebrities that I know, that I’ve worked with in the past. And they can be incredibly detailed, and they’re absolutely firm in the desire that whatever product that they’re going to put their name on is a good quality product. And there are other celebrities that are not as interested in that. So I think it’s probably a case-by-case basis. But generally speaking, I put my faith more into like the scientist, and that comes from my area of bias, because I’m a scientist, more so than celebrities. But that doesn’t mean that celebrity input or their role in producing products can’t be extremely valuable.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>12:38<\/span><\/p>\n Yes, I agree. I think it comes down to a case-by-case basis, and also just looking deeper than just the endorsement is looking into the company and what kind of safety testing they’ve done before that item hits the shelf. And what do you at canopy do on that front to make sure that the products are safe? And what do you think in general is what consumers need to look for to get a safe product?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>13:05<\/span><\/p>\n Oh, this is a great, great topic. You know, I think there is a lot of misinformation around what level of standards should be applied to hemp, CBD products, and other cannabis products. First of all, I think companies and consumers should all insist on having high-quality products. The problem is they don’t know how to insist on it. And I think, you know, everybody should be looking for a certificate of analysis from labs, they should list the cannabinoids present, they should look for solvents that sometimes can be dangerous, like butane or paint-thinner like compounds that are used to extract cannabinoids. And we should also be looking for things like pesticides and heavy metals, you likely know that the cannabis plant is what we call a phytoremediator. It sucks up compounds from the soil. And they actually planted it at Chernobyl to help with the nuclear fallout. And then they tend to get concentrated. So if you have lead in your soil, it’ll get concentrated in the plant and then further concentrated in the final product. So I feel like, you know, the industry or the consumers should set a standard to say products can’t contain more than X amount of lead or more than this amount of pesticide. We do that broadly, we have a limit for let’s say apples of how much pesticides can be on there and I’ve seen several reports of products having 200 times the amount allowed on an apple. So I think, you know, for quality standards, fortunately, at Canopy, and Canopy is not the only one but they’re certainly one of the best ones anywhere that have the means to ensure the products have an extensive amount of safety testing, and you know, certificate analysis or available for those products.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>14:51<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, and I think it’s also about just being educated yourself and knowing how to read those lab reports knowing what to look for. It’s not that complicated and I think people are intimidated by them. But once they take five minutes or so to just look at the main things to look for, it’s really not hard at all.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>15:09<\/span><\/p>\n Right, I would agree permitted the companies not kind of manipulating the limits that they detect, too.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>15:16<\/span><\/p>\n Well, that is true. Do you think ahead, are we going to see some more standardization? Because correct me if I’m wrong, but if I get a bottle tested in California, at a lab, versus Pennsylvania, I might see different limits because state by state, right,<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>15:31<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, not only state by state, but some states don’t have these limits. I’m fortunate enough to have a brother who’s an analytical chemist that runs a lab that does a lot of work for the EPA. And, you know, companies can determine where to set their lower limits of detection if it’s not regulated at the state or federal level. So, for example, if I said there are not detectable limits of lead, and a product in my limit was parts per thousand, most consumers would say, look, there’s no lead. But actually, it should be measured in parts per billion. So it’s a little scary because if you’re the company could just say I only want you to test the parts per thousand. And I’ve seen some of those examples. So it would be great if we could come up with some either federal or just kind of universal standards of what should be tested for them with those limits with acceptable limits are.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>16:23<\/span><\/p>\n Do you see that coming? Do you think we’re going to get worse standardization? I think so. I just don’t know when.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>16:29<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, I do think I think it’s inevitable, I think it’s coming. And I think it should be there. I mean, we know if you go to the ABC store, and you make a purchase there, you have an idea that those are safe products that they don’t have, you’re not looking at a certificate of analysis, because you know, they’re following government guidelines, and it doesn’t have a bunch of methanol and acetone in it. It would be nice if consumers could just say this is a regulated product. We know it doesn’t have these adulterants in it, and therefore at least some level of safety is ensured. So I hope that takes place in the next year or two.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>17:03<\/span><\/p>\n Yes, I do, too. I think that where the industry is going I mean, it would be steps backward if it would degrade into what it used to be where it was just all wild west. I mean, the progress should keep moving forward into safer products for everybody, whatever those may be.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>17:21<\/span><\/p>\n So moving on to something that a lot of people ask me about all the time, I get tons of emails about dosage, how do people find their dosage when it comes to CBD? Because it seems that people are kind of not satisfied with the go low and slow. Or it feels like a cop-out when people say, oh, everybody has their own dosage even though that might be true. It seems like based off the messages I received, people are still confused and don’t know what to do.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>17:53<\/span><\/p>\n I think it’s a great question. I think it probably points to your earlier statement about some people saying, you know, they need certain products or certain products work really well, in a part that could be dose-dependent on some of those products. I will say that with agreeing that it seems like a cop-out, there’s some legitimacy to the start low and go slow piece. But there are some other clarifications I’d like to make first. The first one I don’t think is well understood or well explained. But I think it should be, we know a fair amount about formulations and how bioavailable they are, how much can be absorbed into the blood. And we know that oil is pretty effective compared to other ways of ingestion of getting it into the blood. So if you’re taking something like a CBD water, it’s unlikely unless there’s some you know, really great technology, it’s unlikely that it’s going to you’re actually going to get that into your system. Secondly, we know there’s a really big food effect. So about three to five-fold increase and maximum exposure. So if you are dosing a product, the first thing that you should know is dose it consistently and if you want to get the biggest level of exposure, then you should take it with food. We know that high-fat foods increase exposure, and like I mentioned, for both CBD and THC, it’s about three to fivefold.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>19:13<\/span><\/p>\n That’s a really important point that I want to reiterate. So people would get the most out of CBD and cannabis products if they’re taking it with food, right?.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>19:21<\/span><\/p>\n Correct. It needs a fat to act as a carrier. Yes. You know, there are some other things that you see, like sublingual, and those types of things. There’s not really any good data that suggests that it’s not just kind of draining down your throat and being absorbed in your GI. So there are people that make these claims. I’ve looked for any data that shows that it’s actually being absorbed there and I haven’t seen any. It’s the same thing with topicals. Unless you’ve got what we call a permeation enhancer. You’re not really getting past the skin barrier, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work, because certainly topical things can work for areas like pain, there’s potential that I think is uninvestigated there. But it doesn’t mean you’re not going to rub it on the bottom of your feet to treat your anxiety. I just don’t think there’s any data to suggest something like that.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>20:18<\/span><\/p>\n Yes, yes. I think that from my research that does line up to what I’ve seen as well. About taking it with food, do you find that people can take less of a dose than what they think they need? If they’re taking it with food because it’ll absorb better?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>20:35<\/span><\/p>\n That’s the thought. I mean, based on what we can measure in your blood, you would speculate that if you’re getting the same levels with a lower dose, then that may be the case. Secondly, you know, from the larger trials of CBD, an isolated form, it seems that the side effects can be reduced by consumption with foods, especially if you’re experienced GI-related side effects.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>20:59<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, exactly, especially with THC, that can be a concern. But the GI-related side effects, I’ve heard more with CBD for some reason. And I never knew if it was because of the carrier or the CBD itself.<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>21:11<\/span><\/p>\n Well, it could be the carrier depending on the carrier, but we know that CBD itself can have an effect on the GI. And there are two points, there are certain receptors in the GI that we know that CBD has an interaction with. And there’s also a fair amount of evidence that cannabinoids broadly can affect bacteria. So we know, for example, CBG, a different ammonoid actually, is effective at killing MRSA, which is a really bad bacteria, at least in laboratory settings. So that hasn’t been done at humans. So you would think that there’s potential to have that interaction both with your microbiome in your gut, and also interplay with these receptors. So it doesn’t surprise me that some people can have a little bit of irritability, especially once you get to really high doses.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>22:03<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah. And another thing you said that I thought was quite interesting was about the sublingual. So for people listening, that’s when you take the CBD and just hold it under your tongue for 30 to 60 seconds. It’s kind of everywhere, with tinctures mainly. Have you seen any evidence for the increased absorptions of the nano-type products or bioavailability enhancers with tinctures?<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>22:30<\/span><\/p>\n I’m not, I mean, these companies make these claims. And I don’t want to say that they’re inaccurate, but I just haven’t seen any data. And if you just look at, you know, a standard ethanolic type mixture of cannabinoids, you know, they’ve done clinical trials with not FDA approved product, but other product called Sativex that’s approved outside of the US. And if you look at the PK profiles between that and you know, approved THC synthetics, THC and other products, they don’t really look that much different. So I think it’s tough to speculate that any of these things are having this huge degree of success. But again, nobody’s actually done a study to my knowledge to show, you know, in a comparative study that theirs is is better than something else, I would love to see those data. And, you know, I think at some point, somebody will do that study, but to my knowledge, it’s not been done today.<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>23:25<\/span><\/p>\n Yeah, I’d love to see that as well. Because if these claims are real, it would be a good thing. I’m rooting for these companies that are making the claims, it’s just hard to understand if they’re for real or not at this point,<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>23:37<\/span><\/p>\n Right. I just like to take a look. And you know, maybe there is groundbreaking technology. I assume that somebody is going to come up with groundbreaking technology in this area at some point. I just haven’t seen any proof yet<\/span><\/p>\n Vadim\u00a0 <\/b>23:48<\/span><\/p>\n Is Canopy doing anything with the products to enhance them or something unique that listeners should note them?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>23:55<\/span><\/p>\n We do have products in Canada. We have some really unique drink products that use a micro-emulsification technique. And, you know, the problem is that this hasn’t, not a problem because this isn’t in the necessarily medicinal segment. This is a product for adult use. And everybody’s a bit different. So they haven’t done a formalized PK study like you would in the medicinal or healthcare segment. I do think that the technology shows huge potential and could be applied to other products. But that hasn’t yet been done.<\/span><\/p>\nCommon Misconceptions About CBD<\/span><\/h2>\n
Hunter\u00a0 <\/b>03:28<\/span><\/p>\nCanopy Growth CBD Research<\/span><\/h2>\n
CBD Product Safety and Standards<\/span><\/h2>\n
CBD Dosage and Bioavailability \u2013 How Much Should One Take?<\/span><\/h2>\n
Future New Product Development<\/span><\/h2>\n